#458 How To Avoid Job Scams w/ Gerry Gadoury, Managing Director of Redbeard Solutions
Gerry Gadoury is the Founder and Managing Director of Redbeard Solutions, Speaker and author of the #1 Best-Selling Author of Destination Employer: Attract, Recruit, and Retain the Top Talent in Your Market https://a.co/d/j8Retue
He shares his 25+ years of experience attracting, recruiting, and retaining top talent. Learn how to build long-term relationships with employees and view hiring as more than just filling roles. Gerry discusses aligning career goals, providing growth opportunities, and creating an environment where people can thrive. He also shares stories from his unconventional career path - from the Marines to technical recruiting to building a $9M consulting company. Discover practical strategies to stop bad hires, quiet quitting, and high turnover.
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Law Smith 0:00
There we go, sweat equity podcast and streaming show. Money Now, ooh, I play footsie with you. Sorry, money now, hey, June for that, if you're in the Tampa area, June 28
Speaker 1 0:12
oh, we're gonna promote this every time, every time, buddy. Okay,
Law Smith 0:15
it's all about promo. I can. Gotta fill it up, gotta sell it out. Gotta get more shows. It never stops. What at the gimmick, filming a comedy special,
Eric Readinger 0:25
you are opening and directing you now I'm opening. I thought you were doing five minutes. Okay, fine. No, I want to, okay, I just gotta make sure you directing. Okay, you got five, yeah, five minutes. It'll be about you.
Law Smith 0:37
You got five. That means you got two. That's what old people in comedy sack? Yeah,
Eric Readinger 0:41
maybe. But like when it's gonna be directly about you and how long it took to make this special, it's easy. This
Law Smith 0:46
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Unknown Speaker 1:37
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Law Smith 1:40
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are listening to the sweat equity podcast. Pretty cool, Chinese. What? They're Chinese, aren't they? Who? Zoom? Oh, probably you.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 2:43
Leaving that. Hey guys,
Law Smith 2:44
what's up?
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 2:46
Not much. I went to login and it asked for code, what let me in.
Eric Readinger 2:49
We were just talking about it. He's got to pay his Zoom.
Unknown Speaker 2:53
Zoom
Law Smith 2:54
wants me to pay annually again. I think I was going to do monthly, until we find some way else to do this guest kind of broadcast, because you got to pay, like through the nose to get it in 1080 and it's kind of ridiculous. And I have
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 3:10
you checked out Riverside, that's what I use. We
Law Smith 3:13
tried we tried it once. There's something I didn't like about it. I can't remember. The
Eric Readinger 3:17
thing you're not thinking about, though, is that webcam is not 1080 what is it? 720,
Law Smith 3:23
feet, yeah, but you you can get a $30 webcam extension, right?
Eric Readinger 3:27
I have one laying around here, right?
Law Smith 3:29
So that's not a problem.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 3:30
That's what I use. I just bought a cheap webcam to go 1080 Yeah, the 4k ones are like $30 now, yeah, when you get all this, you need to do it right,
Law Smith 3:41
right? Yeah, no, yep. We'll do what we do in post, you know, make you look even better.
Eric Readinger 3:48
Change the thumbnail picture for our podcast while I'm thinking of it, so I don't look like caveman. You look like a man. Boy, beautiful.
Law Smith 3:58
You know, I did in the hopes that you you would get upset and do something different, I
Eric Readinger 4:04
know, but you do it,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 4:06
I have to do it. Yeah? Is that? Is that your get up for filming your special?
Law Smith 4:12
No, it's, it's at the end of June. Eric is directing in editing, yeah, oh, yeah.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 4:20
I thought it was last night and tomorrow night. No
Law Smith 4:23
20/28. Of June. 20/30 of June. I turned 40 June. 25 the devil's birthday. What? Tell everybody where to find you all the plugs and whatnot. We can't do lightning round. You've already done them. So you don't have to earn your plug this time around.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 4:45
Yeah. So I'm easy to find on LinkedIn. You can check out my book on Amazon. Can check out my program at destination, employer.co, I'm about the easiest person to find,
Law Smith 4:55
number one, best selling author that is. Hey and red beard solutions is the company, indeed it is what what's on your mind this time around, because we we really only talked about, you know, we touched on management and recruiting. We touched on the recruiting funnel a bit last time you were on but I feel like there was a lot more to kind of get to, especially with your destination, employer book. I'm sure there's a lot more chapters you want to discuss.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 5:27
Yeah, for sure, I'll tell you what. There's a couple things I'd love to talk about you. Tell me how this will play with your audience. But one of them is the absolutely abysmal job most companies do in engaging talent to inspire them to stay and perform. I'd love to talk about that.
Law Smith 5:45
Yeah, go for it.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 5:47
Another thing that would be cool is, is really the change in the workforce as a whole. When our parents had jobs, they planned on staying with them. You know, their whole life, they had maybe two jobs when they're adults, obviously, their whole careers when we hit the workforce, me 10 years ahead of law. Apparently when when we hit the workforce, that was down to about five to seven years per job. Fast forward to now. The average tech person stays in a role for about two years. Yeah, yeah,
Eric Readinger 6:21
yeah, our numbers check out.
Law Smith 6:23
It's all it's Would you say it's a negative when someone has a longer kind of tenure and doesn't really kind of move up the ranks? You know, it's
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 6:35
interesting. You say that Multiple studies have been done that the fastest way to climb the ranks and increase your salary is to change jobs every two to three years. The the downside of though, and that's the change you know, it's not even about a right, wrong, good, bad. It's about aligning expectations and making sure you understand what this dynamic means to you as both an employer and an employee. Because downside is companies don't want to spend on upskilling anymore, because they know the dude and do that are going to jet in two years. Well, if anybody
Law Smith 7:08
goes back and listens to the first time you're on, I still think about this a good amount. Is, you know, you had kind of a counterintuitive look at once you hire someone, you sit them down and kind of go, Okay, what's your exit? What's the next thing you're going to do? It's going to be here, somewhere else. And I want to know. I think that's very smart. I don't think a lot of people have that kind of foresight. But back to, like, when you're hiring, wait for I do have something else I was talking about you? Yeah, let's say like you're just No. I say no. I just remembered it. I was talking about it last night with a friend. There are hiring scams out there.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 7:48
Oh my gosh, yes,
Law Smith 7:49
there's it's happening a lot more. There's a lot of fraud going on. Some people have fraud where they're putting in their Social Security as the end game. For that, I've had it were people act as a recruiter. They don't have the contract. They interview for an hour. I don't get how this scam works. Interview, they interview me for an hour. I looked them up afterward. Like more a little bit more diligence. They didn't have the contract with the company because I called the company like, we've never heard of them. You remember
Unknown Speaker 8:23
that happened to me too at the Yeah. I
Law Smith 8:25
mean, yeah, there's more and more scams. A lot of them on LinkedIn, too. Can you, can you tell us what's out there, what to look out for? Because that's really for our audience, for anybody kind of trying to get hired, that that is a big thing where you're like, I don't know how legit this is, but a time waster, but you catch, you catch people at their most vulnerable, right? A lot of people, when they're unemployed, yeah, they
Unknown Speaker 8:47
gotta say yes to everything. I'll
Law Smith 8:48
do anything. I gotta throw it all out there. And it's not very calculated. It's emotional, not measured. And so can you speak to any of these scams? What to look out for?
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 8:58
For sure. So Cogman, 101, is to hit the vulnerable and to elaborate on your point, in my experience, human beings are binary. We either think or we feel, and when you're staring down the barrel of not paying your mortgage, you're feeling so you will do things you wouldn't otherwise do a scam that a guy tried to run on my daughter, which didn't work out super great for him, was he actually hacked an HR reps on LinkedIn profile at a real company. They're blameless, so I'll leave them nameless, but a legit company got her contact info, caught her out of the loop, contacted my daughter as her interviewed her in the shoddiest, stupidest 15 minute interview ever, said you're the person you've got the job or hiring you never happens. In a 15 minute interview for a firm job, said that in order to start they needed her to buy some equipment that they would reimburse her for some. If you'd think, for at home, laptop, printer, stuff like that, and that they had the best rates for a company they knew. So they sent through the info, and thankfully, she reached out to me before she ordered it, because that was the scam. She buys the equipment and, you know, no check to reimburse comes and there's no job. Oh,
Eric Readinger 10:18
yeah, I didn't know. One is when you're getting a job, you don't pay money or buy stuff. Yeah, yeah,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 10:23
exactly, exactly. If they're asking you to spend money to get a job, it's a hard No. But the main the main thing is, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is standard. But the other thing is this, can they answer meaningful questions about the company now, kind of piggybacking on what I said earlier, it's the an interview is to two entities that each have a responsibility. The interviewer has the responsibility to ensure that this person has the skills and experience to do the job and that they're a cultural match for the company. The interviewee has a responsibility to make sure this is a good career match for them. It makes sense, and they're a cultural match for the company. So if they're both doing their job, they're both asking questions. If an interview feels like an interrogation, it's a garbage interview. So I say all this to say, when you're talking to that person, if they can speak about the job, about the role, about the company, it's probably real,
Law Smith 11:28
yeah, it's, it's, I always think about it, they're first dates, really. It's, yeah,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 11:34
you're a great example. You're
Law Smith 11:35
sniffing each other out. You
Eric Readinger 11:36
do the Greatest Hits, yeah,
Law Smith 11:39
yeah. Oh, these pants really tight because my bulge is so big that is, yeah, you know, am I gonna have to deal with any dad issues down the line? Right? That works for job interview or date? Yeah, that one applies to both, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want women getting some some ditzy broads getting hysterical on me. You know, but, I mean, it does feel like that all the time. You're, you're basically meeting up with someone. Usually they don't. If you know them, it's probably not that well, you know. And you're just, you're trying to ask each other questions. I remember when I was younger, kind of interviewing for, like, right out of college, I'm interviewing for jobs. And it's, it was a lot of me not asking questions and realizing that, you know, the third time, I was like, Oh, I gotta come in with some stuff. Like, I can't just limp into this. Yeah, I can't go here part
Eric Readinger 12:33
of the interview. Well, didn't ask any of his own questions. Well, I had, I
Law Smith 12:37
had answers prepared, right? It was like, you know, tell a story that shows how you overcome a hurdle, kind of thing. When they ask a question all that, how you how you had a success or a win in the face of adversity. You know, try to tell some kind of stories that way, so they show your character. But I didn't have any questions of my own, and then I was like, Aha, right? Yeah, because if you went on a first date, and I've been on plenty where they thought it was going to entertain them, because I'm a comic, and I was like, you gotta this has to be ping pong. It
Eric Readinger 13:11
has to be entertaining me too.
Law Smith 13:13
Yeah, I'm not, and I'm I'm not on, like, right now, not funny, but yeah, tell me about it. And on stage, not so much either. Yeah,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 13:24
yeah. So I'll piggyback on what you said. So when you're preparing for an interview, you want to do some basic website search. You want to peep the person on LinkedIn a little bit, learn a little bit about them. But a great rule of thumb is this, they ask you a question, say a technical or experiential question, if you're confident that you know what they're looking for, because that's another thing to understand. Most hiring managers who interview aren't skilled interviewers. They might interview 10 or 15 times a year. You know, it's just a small portion of what they do. A professional recruiter obviously, is a different thing, but, but when they ask you a question, if it's overly general, give them a positive, general answer and reply, then ask a narrowing question back. So if that's something super general, like, Do you know how to use Microsoft Office? Well, they probably want to know more than that, and probably they're they're thinking there's only one right answer, but there's a billion. So you could say something like, Yeah, I know how to use Microsoft Office. How would I use it here? Or what particular tools in that package would I use here? And that forces them to give you a more narrow answer. And then you can elaborate on that. And then you ask something like, is that the way we would do it here? And that just it keeps it conversational to your point, it keeps it a ping pong ball.
Law Smith 14:41
Yeah, if you keep asking questions, I feel like the conversation usually goes better dates or interviews.
Eric Readinger 14:48
Yeah, you don't want to make it like a trudge. You don't want to make it feel like that, you know. But also, I feel like an interviewer comes out of it being like that was easy. And to them, that's like a. I could work with that person. You know, we our interview. We took an hour, and it went by so quick. And, you know, blah, blah sort of thing where it's like, keeping a conversational can help with that. And
Law Smith 15:09
also, like, if you don't know Microsoft Office, like, you can be like, it basically you're asking a question of, like, how would we use that here? And then if you got the job, you'd be like, Okay, I gotta really get on Excel. I I gotta really get my V lookup formulas going.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 15:24
Yeah, and there's a couple important things there. That's a little bit of a Jedi mind trick. How would we use it? Here, you're getting that person in vision. You work in there. The second part is, every single interview, regardless of who the person is, they're getting a vibe of whether they think they can work with you or not. So if you can talk with them and have a conversation that immediately lets them know that you can, yeah, I Yeah.
Eric Readinger 15:48
Don't make them feel awkward. I picture working with them is going to be awkward. I
Law Smith 15:52
picture this with clients a lot of the time because it's kind of an interview process of sorts. When you're doing perspective kind of meetings, it's you know, can do they? Would they want to hang out? What? And I do, I ask the same question, what I want to if I had to be in a room late night with them, eating Chinese food and working late? Would that work? Do I foresee that? Could we make a working relationship like that? You know? Yeah, I
Eric Readinger 16:19
don't think that applies as much.
Law Smith 16:21
I just, it's colorful. I'm just saying, like, I just, this is a, you can
Eric Readinger 16:24
overlook a lot of it's a very cheap people as clients, right? You know that you don't gotta say, like, all the time.
Law Smith 16:31
Part of, part of getting hired is a friendliness or ability to and it shouldn't be, but it is, you know, the ability to kind of be affable and be able to hang out with that but be around that person. You might not love
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 16:46
talking the person to become my soulmate, but I want to know that at the end of that hypothetical night, I'm not going to drive the chopsticks through his eye. Yeah, yeah. So, so 100% yes. And I would disagree slightly and say part of it is being able to be a little bit affable if we can't interact, What a miserable experience that would be, sir. Yeah,
Law Smith 17:07
suck on that. Bro.
Eric Readinger 17:07
Oh, that was that me. What did I say? I didn't say that. I don't remember. I mean, no, I agree totally. What I rewind that I don't remember what I said.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 17:19
That's a flame shift go on right there. But that's, I mean, that's just, I mean, that's 101, stuff. But the thing to remember too, because the length of employment is dropping so much because the mindset is almost becoming long term partners versus employer and employee more of the responsibility. And this is what I was talking about earlier. It's less about good bad, more about how it works for you. More the responsibility falls on the candidate to figure out if this makes sense. They need to understand, does this legitimately represent a progression in my career? Because I'm only going to be there two years, can I accomplish an up there? Yeah.
Law Smith 17:59
And I think back to the vulnerability. I think a lot of people go in nervous because they need the gig and for sure, and you kind of act irrationally. You can't go like, because what happens when you're unemployed for long enough? But you have skill set to work in a lot of places. There's just not you're not getting a lot of interviews. It's one of those things where you start like, devalue, devaluing yourself a lot, and then you come in very insecure, yeah,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 18:27
it's very similar to sales. The more you need the sale, the harder it is to close, right?
Law Smith 18:33
And the more eagerness, or, like, kind of old Gil needs a sale, yeah, from The Simpsons. Or what is it
Eric Readinger 18:40
that was one was enough coffees
Law Smith 18:43
for closers. Okay? You know Glenn Gary. Glenn Ross,
Eric Readinger 18:47
yeah, that's the thing
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 18:50
you don't love. The irony of all the famous sales movies is they pretty universally represent horrible salespeople, great salespeople, the person who they're selling to that person feels guided to a decision they wanted to make. Bad sales people, the first the person feels pushed or manipulated. So
Law Smith 19:10
good sales movie, Passion of the Christ, yes, interesting. Maybe the ultimate salesman, yes. Who knows? And everyone's selling him, you know, Pontius Pilate, yeah, pyramids
Eric Readinger 19:22
game,
Law Smith 19:22
yeah. So trickle down, all right, we got, we derailed from where you were going originally, and now I can't even remember, because I'm thinking of Jesus, yeah, you brought it up
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 19:36
from the I'd argue that we really, we we just looking from the candidate perspective, but talking about that shorter period of time and how it transitions the relationship. Um, the thing to remember again, you know, I was talking, I was talking to this woman named Grace McCarrick. She's called the culture Coach, and we're talking about, for the first time in the history. The United States, five generations are actively the workforce, Boomers, Gen X, millennials, Gen Z, and now Gen X. So you've got five different generations. The Boomers still remember a time when, again, they were going to be in a job for 10 to 20 years. There's an expectation from that generation that an employer has some responsibility for their welfare. Gen a, they're practically all gig mindset, because that's the world they grew up in, and there's a difference there and expectation and responsibility. Again, it's not as much a right wrong thing. It's a reality of the marketplace. So for that Boomer or that older Gen X, like myself, um, them looking at an employer and expecting something other than the next paycheck is probably a bad mindset. Ours, that Gen a person, realizes that again, they're there until their their mission and values no longer aligned with that company. And again, that's typically about two years.
Law Smith 20:58
Yeah, the market will demand, and if you don't realize it, you're kind of, you have bad expectations of what's going to happen.
Eric Readinger 21:06
I mean, I think the gig mindset in terms of, like, happiness or just fulfillment, or like lack of disappointment, like, if you're just used to being like, Hey, I'm, you know, this is, this is what I'm doing now, maybe it'll stay, maybe it won't. You know, when a layoff comes out of nowhere, it doesn't completely devastate you, as it would the older generation.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 21:35
Well, there's definitely pros and cons. So like in the older mindset, there was more clear path to where you were going. There was more involvement from the employer in things like upskilling, training, career planning, and there was a lot more expectation of responsibility on the part of the employer. Today it's in your hands. So when you're picking your next path, you have to make sure it makes sense when an opportunity comes to upskill, you need to take it, and you're probably paying for it yourself, and you need to include that so that next time you get enough more than the prior gigs that it makes up for that difference. And again, it's not a good bad, it's just adapting the reality of the marketplace.
Eric Readinger 22:20
So like, on the flip side, do you see more or, I guess it would be less internal, higher, like, you know, moving up, or is it more like bringing people in from the outside, because, you know, they're only going to be here for two years. So why not full time, get the best person
Law Smith 22:38
full time in, house or contracted? Is that what you're kind of, no,
Eric Readinger 22:42
I'm just saying like, when it comes to like, do you see more like, if there's an open position, say somebody took that, that next step up and there's an open position, or is there more outside hiring going on now than compared to like, Inside, uh, promotion,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 23:01
it's still pretty mixed. I will say this. Here's something interesting. I've always been an advocate, assuming you're not settling for lesser talent to hire internally first. It's great for morale, you know, it shows progression. But here's something to think about. Imagine for a minute that the CEO role becomes available in a mid to large size company. He retires. He quits whenever he dies. Who cares not there anymore. So you take one of your executive VPs and you bump them up to CEO. Now you've got an EVP roll open, so you bump a VP up to EVP role. I get a VP roll open, so you bump a director up to that role. Before you realize that you're five new people in new roles, whereas hiring an external CEO only changes one seat. That's a great point. That's something to keep in mind when you're doing internal promotion, again, not a bad thing. But sometimes when you think it all the way through, it's a lot more instability than what you think. Yeah,
Eric Readinger 23:55
that's a great point. Take
Law Smith 23:56
that intern, make him or her the CEO, right? You know,
Eric Readinger 24:00
maybe just for new position, right?
Law Smith 24:04
Well, you see, you know, you see them doing the intern job very well. They might as well be CEO. What? What about that kind of Dunning Kruger effect with the generation? You know, I guess it would be millennial to whatever the youngest workforce generation is, is there a lot of that you're seeing?
Unknown Speaker 24:24
No
Law Smith 24:26
Dunning Krugers, where you think you watch the YouTube video for five minutes and you think you're an expert on a subject, oh,
Eric Readinger 24:32
I didn't understand what
Law Smith 24:34
it's the opposite of imposter syndrome or fact,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 24:38
interestingly, you see that with the orange generation. But what you don't see as much as the Peter Principle, you know,
Eric Readinger 24:45
where somebody's got the biggest thing in the
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 24:49
room, where, you know, somebody promotes out of their their ability to do the role and everything they touch from that point forward turns to So, yeah, it's, it's, it's a weird. Time in the market. But circling back, one of the things I talked about a lot in the destination employer program is just that having a consistent, cohesive plan that covers the attraction, the recruitment and the retention, so that by having it one cohesive system or plan, when you bring somebody in, and we talked about a little bit on the last episode, you're setting and managing expectations, because if you as an employer, can keep a person in your organization productive for a longer period of time, that's a net win for both of you, and the way that you do that is to know what they're trying to achieve, clear the path for that, make sure they feel heard and valued, they're fulfilled in their role, and they're growing. If those three things are happening, you're incentivizing them to stay. They don't need to leave, but as soon as they hit that ceiling, now there's a reason for them to leave. If you understand what that is and you give it to them internally, more is the better. If you can't, you know that they're going to go natural breaking point.
Eric Readinger 26:02
So I for you, because for me, I feel like it's something that I value too much, maybe, but like when it comes to an org chart, just having it laid out, who's doing what, who's in charge of, who, how much value do you put in that? It
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 26:19
depends on the organization for very small companies, they're laughable, because in a small company, everybody does whatever needs to happen. In larger organizations, as the value of generalists transitions to specialists, they become more valuable. Smaller orgs typically value generalists for what I just described. They can do whatever needs to happen. But as the company gets bigger and the need for depth of knowledge increases, you give up breadth of knowledge for depth. You get that. We call them T skilled people, some depth, but, but real, really only in one or two areas, and then a lot of breadth. When you get to that point, then, yeah, the org chart is important. It is of value. They're
Law Smith 27:01
fishing pond that's 50 feet wide and two feet deep, kind of deal. It's
Eric Readinger 27:06
like close thing to a scoreboard you can get sometimes, you know, yeah,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 27:10
back back in the day when I was doing technology staffing, it was important for me to have incredible general knowledge, because we sold all kinds of technology staffing. So I might be talking to somebody about a cloud security Well, that was before cloud security was the thing. A network security person in the morning. I might be talking about a software developer in the afternoon and a project manager in the middle. So I need to be able to talk a little bit about it to everybody. But when I come back to the barn, I go to the recruiting pod that mastered that skill, and I get all the depth stuff from them. So that was beneficial in that type of a context, a
Law Smith 27:46
player coach to use a metaphor that's used often, I guess, around the recruiting side. You know, we need someone, when you get higher up, we need someone that's a generalist, that has special specialties as well. Kind of thing behind you. You talked about this last episode, but I kind of want to see if you have more on it. There's a flywheel behind you. About change a guy with a knife?
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 28:13
There's a knife behind me, yeah? Here's a fighting knife from when I was in the Marines. That's Wow, right within arm's reach. Yeah, man, I'd
Law Smith 28:21
be playing with that the whole time. It's
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 28:23
gonna be a bad night for law.
Law Smith 28:26
No, I, I'm I'm nowhere. I
Eric Readinger 28:28
saw the nice I saw it with my eyes. Well. I
Law Smith 28:31
see the flywheel behind you. And change. Change is inevitable. It's one of those things where he's got a gun. I think the behavior. To change behavior is the hardest thing right, to change habits, to motivate your flywheel behind you. About change management, I'm guessing it just says change, but I'm going to put change management. It's learn, build, measure, and they all three kind of push
Eric Readinger 28:56
each other for sure, it's built. Could be guild, could be someone's been playing Wordle. It's
Law Smith 29:03
a five letter guy. That's
Eric Readinger 29:04
the only one. God damn.
Law Smith 29:09
But yeah, so I'm interested in flywheels as they I've been reading about it lately, and it's kind of that thing of forward forward momentum. It can work the opposite way as well, but
Eric Readinger 29:22
you point the arrow right? So
Law Smith 29:25
if you think about it like a spring, like a slinky, it can go up or it can go down, because one thing can push the other thing down, or it can push it up. So that's the flywheel kind of mentality. But really people talk about in forward momentum? Yeah,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 29:39
this one is tilted towards product development. So it's from software development this particular one, but it works just as well in services. The build would change, but the concept is the same. It's all about iteration. So whether it's a product or service, you develop your product or service, you share the marketplace they give you. Feedback. That's the Learn part. You see what changes need to happen, and then you measure those changes to make sure you're getting what you need. And then you iterate again and again and again. But the main thing to remember about change, regardless of anything else, and you touch on it a little bit there, law change is a process, not an event. People don't break habits. That's a fallacy. People replace habits. So when you're trying to change a person's behavior, try to get them quit smoking or stop wearing pink headbands. You know, whatever it is, you need to give them something to I told them to say that
Law Smith 30:37
I wear the out of this. So I don't care. I look good. I'm like, Lizzo body.
Eric Readinger 30:42
I get a pink one. I got a stupid green one just sitting around. That's the one you chose. No, you just gave it to me, bro. Oh, I
Law Smith 30:50
want both. This one's my orange one. This one's a Nike one. You ain't getting this
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 30:54
one. So I'll tell you a quick story. So many years ago, when I used to do a lot of workshops and a lot of sales and management training. One of my clients flew me down to Hotlanta to do a one day sales workshop with their team. And it was a good day. Everyone is happy at the end. Everybody's all excited. Um, it was, I think it was like a Wednesday or Thursday farmer, sorry, following Monday, I called the owner, and he was like, Hey, that was great, but everybody's back to doing what they were doing already. Yeah,
Law Smith 31:24
the motivation is temporary, you know, like, and
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 31:27
that's what I told them. I was like, Look, the only way this works, sell a coaching package. Sell a coaching package. The only way this works is if that's supported until it becomes stabit. And that experience I stopped doing one day workshops. It just because it was, it's fun for me, because I get to go somewhere and spend a day doing what I do. But it's, it's almost completely ineffective. So, you know, far more effective. Rather than fly me down there and pay a day rate for me to go and talk in front of a group, would be to do a weekly webinar for a month and group coaching for three months. Same output, dollar wise, but a much, much more effective outcome.
Law Smith 32:08
We are what we habitually do. Yes, that's Aristotle Plato, so great. I can't remember, oh, one of the first I want to say, Aristotle,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 32:19
you make your habits, and then your habits make you.
Law Smith 32:22
That's better. That's wooden UCLA,
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 32:26
uh, oh. I think so. I'm pretty sure it's yeah, the basketball coach, Coach,
Law Smith 32:29
wooden, yeah, all his, all his quotes are just reversed of the first sentence. I feel like the shots you don't take the shots, the shots take you or something, you know, all that stuff. But we're running out of time, we'll get you back on here. I owe you a call later this week or next week, off off air and anything. Where can people we'll do it again. Where can people find you?
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 32:56
Yeah, so my LinkedIn profile, destinationemployer.co, Redbeard sol.com you can get my book on Amazon, destination, employer, I'm the easiest person to find in the world.
Law Smith 33:08
Yeah, you're the few link, one of the few people on LinkedIn messaging that I I'm like, oh I forgot. It's all a lot of it, dude, it's so hard. No, it's dude. How many podcasts,
Eric Readinger 33:20
promotion. Podcast, yeah, you want us below doctor? MD, yeah. Why is everybody's name who wants to promote my podcast start with? MD, well, I'm a sign say more. Keep going. No, yeah, keep going. I just don't I, you know, what is the medical treatment like, wherever they live. And I'm not saying anything. I didn't bring anybody's race or nationality into this.
Law Smith 33:47
I did, yep.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 33:48
70% of my LinkedIn messages are either AI generated or some VA, yeah,
Law Smith 33:54
yep, uh, everyone claims, uh, I should be friends with them. For some I love the ones that people just it's a it's aI messaging. It's they're using Apollo or something like that. But it's like, I haven't replied to anything. And there's 17 messages like just bumping this
Eric Readinger 34:12
to the top. I could stop bumping it. You don't have to keep bumping it to the top. It's not gonna ever matter where it's bumped to.
Law Smith 34:18
Congrats on your new congrats on your new role. Generic message, thanks.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 34:23
Yeah. My favorite, even more than that, is when the third or fourth outreach gets passive aggressive. Well, I guess you're not. Oh yeah, right,
Eric Readinger 34:31
yeah.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 34:32
I'm sorry I didn't reply to the message. I
Law Smith 34:34
didn't ask for it's like, Are you even listening? Are you even reading these or saying yes, you
Eric Readinger 34:38
don't want to improve your business. You know, I'm like, don't do the don't
Law Smith 34:42
do the pickup artist on me, like me, bro. Oh, you're looking a little fat, but I like it. Yeah, yeah, that don't work. All right, bud. Thanks for coming back on. We'll have you on, I'm sure, a couple months or something.
Gerry Gadoury, Redbeard Solutions 34:56
Sounds great. Guys, great talking as always. Thanks, man. True to Lou. You.
